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I really like the attempt that has been made to articulate something of a ‘progressive’ understanding of christianity through the 8 points.

The 8 Points

I would be quite interested in exploring some of them in more detail, not to debate whether they are right or wrong, but to get a deeper feel for what they might mean.

For example, in no 2, I am intrigued by the little phrase ‘gateway to God’s realm’, and what that is getting at.

I’ve taken the Gateway in Point 2 to be both a reference back to Point 1 - Have found an approach to God through the life and teachings of Jesus and also a response to the text often quoted by Evangelicals: “I am the way, the truth and the light, and no-one comes to the Father except through me.”

So basically it is saying that we reject the exclusive approach and take a pluralist stance.

Pavel

That’s what I take it to mean, and am very happy to sign up to it. I am interested in the language of a ‘realm’, as if it is a territory or a sphere of influence. I presume this is alluding to the ‘basileia’, the kingdom of god idea, but avoiding a male translation of that metaphor.

I find myself questioning more and more metaphors and images of god that would place god in charge of a realm, or ‘in charge’ at all really. Does the word ‘realm’ imply an ‘in charge’ concept, I wonder? I still keep using the ‘kingdom of god’ language because it contains and expresses so much that is at the heart of what my christian faith means to me, including a subversion of traditional understandings of power. However, I am still looking for alternative language that can carry an inclusive and subversive message without somehow buying into monarchy and its abuses.

I find the notion that God is a kind of absolute monarch, even if a benevolent one, as outdated a concept as the divine right of kings.
- I find that I still use ‘Kingdom of God’ as a kind of shorthand but perhaps we should update it to something like ‘Domain of Love.’

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I don’t see God as an all-powerful being; and certainly not as a being in humanoid form with human-like emotions and human-like thinking. The words that come to my mind to indicate the nature of God are: infusing and enthusing; creative and dynamic; unconditional, self–giving love; multi-dimensional and multiplex; unexpected.
- I’ve found these statements from others helpful:

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“For the very God of Heaven is not Power, but Power of Love.”
(Rev’d Studdert Kennedy, “Woodbine Willy”, as he was known by the soldiers in the horror of World War 1 trenches)

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“The beyond in the midst’ (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

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“ His divinity depends on His power to share Himself with whatever is able to receive Him. If He was not sharing Himself, He would not be God.” (Meister Eckhart)

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“All living knowledge of God rests upon this foundation: that we experience Him in our lives as Will-¬to-Love.”  (Albert Schweitzer 1931)

Those are helpful quotations, thank you Pavel. I very much like the Studdert Kennedy poem.  http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/dasc/TUB.HTM#Page35
- This Sunday, the last before Advent, is ‘Christ the King’, which is causing me to grapple with this again. The Matthew 25 passage offered by the lectionary presents a disturbing paradox - a mighty, glorious, judging king who totally identifies himself in the world with the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the stranger, the prisoner. Challenging stuff, but I wonder how easy it will ever be to get away from this mixed up imagery of power, with its language of kings and realms and domains and the like. I suppose it causes us to reflect on our own mixed up relationship with power, which is helpful. Far easier to identify ourselves with the strong, than to enter the aura of exclusion that surrounds those in need, even when the need is our own.

well, i always love to go through some new and interesting topic in forums. i found this forum interesting for the first visit.the topic PCN ’8 Points’seems to me most interesting. i have got to know something here. thanks for sharing your all important and valuable discussion.

live sports

I have argued for years that, whilst ‘basileia’ does translate as ‘kingdom’, it is time to abandon this term, particularly in a world that now elects ‘beauty queens’.

What, then, as Abigail asks, do we say in its place? Do we speak of the ‘republic of God’ as some have suggested? This, too, raises problems with its political overtones. ‘Commonwealth of God’ may be better but, in my personal reflection, I tend to use an expression borrows from the graet Leveller, Gerald Winstanley: “the Common Treasury” of God.

Spin this text to add variation to your comments and check this for http://www.transmog.com search access. New comment/post. I very much like the Studdert Kennedy poem. i found this forum interesting for the first visit. i have got to know something here. thanks for sharing your all important and valuable discussion.

Simon the Pilgrim, that is a very interesting question. I think religious language is very pertinent today as I think there is a lack of vocabularly regarding our understanding of God and also a misunderstanding of how to use religious language.

I would seem that the still used idea of God as King goes way back to when religion formed a nations identity although I would argue that this is almost entirely a Christian tradition that started with the mocking title of Jesus but maybe held as credible in New Testament language and more so when kingdoms like Armenia and empires like Byzantine needed to associate their leadership with the divine plan.

If we go further back to Hebrew traditions, they have Yahweh, Elohim and other names which imply more about characteristics than a person. So yes the idea of King is outdated to an extent but I don’t think we should rush into replacing it. I always admire zen buddhists for their lack of language and explaination. They seem happy to just experience.